Sin, Salvation, and the Gods

Interview with a devotee
near the Golden Vishvanath Temple, Varanasi


I am 16. 1 belong to a Brahmin family from Varanasi. This is one of the holiest cities of Hinduism. What makes it holy is the temple of Shiva, this temple. Our family has lived in Benares for the last 300 years. This city is 3,000 years old. I want to stay in Benares. Delhi and Bombay are running cities. People are running like the Japanese. When Japanese come here, they can’t stay in one place. If they want to see a temple, they see the temple and then they just run. They don’t have time to put on their shoes. They take their shoes in hand and just run away. They think that maybe someone will catch them or will try to take their money, or try to sell them something. So these people don’t have time. If, in Delhi, you stand somewhere and ask anyone for directions to a place, they don’t have time to tell you. If it is Bombay they want money for telling you the way. I have seen other cities, like Delhi, Bombay and Calcutta, but I have never found any as good as Benares.

Here, people are happy. You can see that if someone is sleeping somewhere, they sleep for a long time. If he goes to sit on a ghat, then he is just sitting there for six or seven hours. Always they don’t worry. It’s normal to worry for family, for life or for food, but after that, people are happy. You can find people who will talk to you. But in other places, they are happy in themselves. For one man, the whole world is himself. He is busy in himself. But here, people want to be with others. I can’t say about beggars whether they are happy or not. Maybe I am also not happy. Food, clothing, family — these can’t make you happy. You have to feel happy on the inside. If they think they are happy, then they are happy. I cannot say whether someone is sad or happy. I might say that you are happy, but the fact may be that you are sad inside. Some people have to beg, so they are beggars. If some time I have to beg, then I will beg. I think it is possible to change [beggars]. Someone can help them, but I cannot say to someone, “Go and help him.” First I have to go and help them. I am trying to do what I can. What more can I do? I cannot clean the world by getting rid of them. I cannot throw them out. They are everywhere, a big quantity. Everywhere you can find beggars. It’s difficult to root them out.

You know the Shiva temple? This temple [pointing to the golden-domed temple across from the shop] was under our family. My father was the owner of this temple, but in 1983 there was trouble. Some people stole the gold from inside and the public demanded too much. So now this temple is under the government’s control. There is much income in the temple. A lot of people come from all over India. It is an important temple for Hindus. They bring a lot of offerings to Shiva. So the government thought, “If we get the temple, we will have much money from the temple.” So now the temple is under the government and all the income goes to the government. Before, we were living on the income of the temple. We had our food, our money and our property from the temple. Now, everything goes totally to the government. We get nothing from it. This has been the case for the last ten years.

We have a case in the supreme court against the government. There was a scandal in the temple when gold was stolen. Then the government told the people that our family was not enough to mange the temple. My family was managing the temple very well and the people are now not satisfied with the government system. After we lost everything, we started this business. That was three years ago, in 1991. We bought this ourselves, the government did not help us. They don’t want to help us. So now among the local people, nobody goes inside the temple. You have to ask the people and they will tell you the same thing. Maybe some are not totally with us, but mostly they will agree. Now they go to other temples. There are many other important temples as well which are not very famous, but still, they are important. So people believe in Shiva. If someone believes in God, then for them a stone is God. But if you don’t believe, even if God is standing in front of you, you will say it’s nothing. So they go to different temples, not to this one.

The lingam of Shiva which is in this temple is called the jyoti lingam. There are only 12 such lingams in the whole of India. There are 12 “most important” places for Hindus all over the world. This is one of them. That’s why it’s very, very important. This one is called the Vishvanath temple. Most of the people come this way to visit the Kashi Vishvanath. Also, this is an old city, situated on the banks of the Ganga, and it has good ghats where people can bathe easily. But now it is not so important. At one time it was very important. There were many schools, temples and ashrams. Very gentle-cultured people used to live here. People were coming from all over the world to learn things from them. Geniuses were here. But it is not in the same condition now. It is also getting modern, which means that its importance is decreasing.

Maybe sometime this will also become an economic center, and everyone will be busy here for money. Before, there were people such as sadhus, sants, mahatmas, and sages — people like that. People used to enjoy ganja and bhang. They were happy. They used to pray to Shiva. So the people of India used to place great importance on coming here to visit these spiritual men, where great souls lived. Everyone wanted to come to this place. So it was like a tradition. If their grandfather came, then they also wanted to come. But people who follow the tradition today and come here, they find it’s nothing like it used to be. But now it’s changed. There are shops here, houses here, hotels here and businesses here. Then they go home and say, to their son or grandson, “I am not going to go there again.” Gradually, people have stopped coming. There are fewer and fewer people, compared to the past.

Still people come to some places in large numbers. Like in Allahabad, there is the sangam where the Maha Kumbh is held every twelve years. About one million people come there every day during that time. Every sixth year, there is a little Kumbh. Lots of people come for that too. I myself have been to the Maha Kumbh, three or four years ago. There was nothing to see there, just people all around. The whole earth was covered. You could only see people. And if you went to bathe in the river, you could hardly see the water. There were so many people all around. I just went to take a holy dip in the sangam. When we were coming back, it was very difficult to make our way through the sea of people. But we came out somehow. It was a good experience to see so many people together. It was busy, but I felt good. The whole atmosphere there was holy and everyone showed an acceptance from their heart, of the camp. It was an emotional experience, being able to take a holy dip there and get a lot of punya. This is the opposite of sin, and they go to collect it, to reserve a seat in heaven. If you do a lot of sins in life, you are going to book a seat in hell.

Now, this is a holy month. There is special worship of Shiva in this month. This is the month of savan. The rainy season, monsoon, starts in this month. From all over the country they come by foot, pilgrims. They come to this temple and they go to Badrinat, in the mountains. These are the pilgrim places. The Kashmiri militants have created some problems for pilgrims, so they cannot go to Amarnat. They said to the government, “If you don’t give us something,” like they were blackmailing the government. “If you do not do this or that for me, then we will not let any pilgrims come to Amarnat. We will stop them in the middle and kill them. It’s like that.” So, people come to this temple from all over India, but the local people go to other places, because they don’t want to come here.

Now our family goes to this temple because we believe in Shiva. It is not a question of money or property, or of wanting gold. We believe in Shiva, we go to Shiva. When we pray we ask for good luck. We believe, and Shiva gives us good luck. In front of you, we are sitting here in this place of Shiva. Those who know some system, some method of praying, they go to Shiva and practice this method. They chant some hymns, some mantras. For others, it is different. They don’t know anything, they just believe. They just pray to Shiva, saying, “Oh Shiva, you are great. Do this for me.” They believe Shiva arranges everything for them. It depends on the people as to what offering they bring. Some may bring lots of offerings. They may offer gold or much money to the temple. But if someone comes and they don’t have very much, they bring flowers, some sweets, some incense sticks, and they offer these to Shiva. They bring some Indian scents like chandan and offer these to Shiva. The offerings may be taken to the priest’s house where they are eaten or used there. Or if the cleaners of the temple throw the used offerings onto the roof, if there is something edible in that, then the monkeys eat. The rest goes to the Ganges.

It’s not necessary to go to the temple in order to pray to Shiva. But people go there and they think that is Shiva. Something visible is there. You can pray out in wild or remote areas, or you can go searching for the place of Shiva. But still, people go to the temple to pray. There are many gods. It is written in the Rig Veda, the oldest book of the world written in Sanskrit, that there are spirits of brahma, the brahma who created the whole world. In the Rig Veda it is written that we have 84 billion gods and goddesses. So it is not possible to pray to whomever we want. We have some main gods and goddesses. Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu, these are the three most important. The way we choose which god to worship comes from generations. It is family tradition that was started a long time ago, maybe in the tenth generation, further back from us. These ancestors started worshipping Shiva, so we worship Shiva. If you go to Bengal, then you will find that the Bengali people are devotees of power, Durga and Kali. These are the goddesses of power. And they are called shakt. Shakti means power, and so they are called shakt.

We can change to a different deity if we want, but for that we need a diksha. Any respected guru can give us diksha and knowledge. He could get us into the worship of that god. Then we will be able to pray there. There is no problem with switching gods as far as my family is concerned, because the gods are all the same. We follow Shiva, but that doesn’t mean that we fight with those who follow Vishnu or Brahma. We pray to everyone. We go to Brahma temples or Vishnu temples, but Shiva is still the main god for us. Like people have a family doctor or a family lawyer, so also they have a family god. So our family god is Shiva. So we prepare everything we are going to start or do by first praying to Shiva. There are special days for worship, but also many people go every day and pray, three times a day. It’s like that. I don’t do that. but others do. We can pray in the house. Those who are able to go to a temple can do so. Not every one is so lucky that they have a temple in the side of their house [the shopkeeper’s home and shop is located directly across the narrow street from the temple]. So they pray in the house. Many people have a temple inside their house, so they can worship there. But if someone is not able, they can go to the temple. We are able to go to the temple because it is in the side of our house. I go to the temple once a week. That’s on Monday, the day of Shiva.

Every day in the morning, after taking a bath, we pray to the sun and we pray to the river Ganga. In order to get blessing for a good day, we pray to all the gods. In the night, before sleeping, we read a few parts of the Ramayana. We do the reading together, everybody, as a family. It’s like a song, the Ramayana. A few people are reading together and it sounds nice. That’s what people think who don’t understand. The reason is that it looks nice. It is difficult to understand. If you are reading the Ramayana and someone doesn’t know, it is difficult to understand. It is written in the avadhi language, the language of the Ayodhya area. We can understand it because we’ve been reading it for a long time. The person who taught us to read it also told us the meanings. My father and my grandfather teach me. It comes like that. My mother also teaches.

In festivals, during special times of worship, or sometimes for a pilgrimage, we go as a family. Sometimes we go on a pilgrimage to Rameshvaram. It’s in the South, at the southern tip of India. There is a Shiva temple there. In the North also, in the mountains of the Himalaya, we have gone to Kailash. It is the place of Shiva, where Shiva lives. And in the West there is a place called Dvarka, the place of Krishna. Krishna built this city there. Now people believe that it is under the sea, and they go there. And in the East, there’s a place called Kamrug Ka Makhya, in Assam. That’s also very famous, and people go there. In the whole country, there is a different place in each of the four directions. These were founded by Shankaracharya. He was the man who tried to unite all the people. He tried to create unity among all the Hindus, so he founded all four pilgrim places in the East, West, North and South. All Hindus have to go to these places. Those who are able surely do go. We go often as a family.

[Concerning the small shrine in the shop similar to a miniature god-house.] These are like shrines. They are placed in shops. This one is of Ganesh. So that is the place of Ganesh and Lakshmi. Lakshmi is the goddess of wealth, and you know that Ganesh is the god of wisdom and good luck. So people put them in their shops for good luck. They have to give them a place, so they make it in the shape of a small temple or shrine and put it there. This is so that we may have blessing on our business, and we pray to them every day. Before starting business early in the morning, we pray to them, asking them to give us a good day. When we pray, we use mantras.

We believe the gods hear us because we believe that we have God inside us. Everybody has God inside. If we speak something, we hear ourselves, and so God is hearing that. The reason we don’t pray to ourselves is because we cannot see inside. If we could see inside, then we would be God. So if I’m not able to see inside, I have to make a form of what is inside me. We make a form in front of us and we say, “Oh, this is the one that is inside me. Okay, you are there, so listen.” We believe that he is inside, but we see him also in front of us. Many people do not worship any images or statues. Everyone has his own method. It is our culture. We have statues, so we pray to them. Sometimes we have symbols, such as the Shiva lingam, and we pray to it. That symbol actually becomes a god. Oh yes, if that is a symbol of God, that is God.

As far as my hopes are concerned, I hope for a good life. You yourself know what is a good life — just to get a joyful life, with blessings from the gods, that they won’t get angry but will give us good luck, that they will give us guidance so we will go in the right way, that we won’t miss the way. The right way is the way that goes to God. It is a difficult way. The manner in which we recognize that way is by learning from our gurus and our parents. Yes, I too have a guru. Our gurus teach us how to go in the good way, and which goes to God. There is the way of brahmacharya. There are many different rules, which people cannot follow easily. It’s very difficult. Now, these difficult paths are not very popular. People go on any path, whichever way they want. Someone is looking to go abroad, someone is seeking to be a criminal, and someone is looking for gold. It’s like that. And the way which our guru says to go, it is very difficult to go on that way. Sometimes it’s to leave one’s house or one’s family.

The way to decide which path is right is to use our own minds. If we feel on the inside that it’s the right way, then it’s the right way, because some people who are going on the wrong way, they will feel one day that it is the wrong way. It depends on me. Others can guide me, but they cannot pull me. If I have bad luck, then even if I try 100 times or 1,000 times, I will not be able to find the right way, if I believe in luck. Many people do not believe in luck. They say, “It’s nothing. We can do anything by relying on ourselves.” But they never got a good time in their lives, because they did not have good luck. They start anything and it goes bad.

[During this segment of the interview, numerous bells began to ring. They are used for waking up the god for his lunch time.] Now it is 12 o’clock and this is the lunch time of Shiva. So the priests offer to Shiva rice, dal, vegetables, fruits, and milk for him to have for lunch. Probably you can hear the sound of mantras and hymns. People believe that Shiva is always in a happy mood. Sometimes he has bhang. So he is happy and sleepy. So they ring the bell, saying, “Oh Shiva, please wake up.” And after that, they start saying whatever they want. When they pray, sometimes it is a request, “Oh Shiva, give me this.” They start that after ringing the bell. Shiva is usually sleeping in the night. Early morning, around 4 o’clock when the temples open, the priests pray, “Oh Shiva, please wake up. Now it’s morning, please wake up.” Also, there are special mantras for that. People make music with the oboe and drums. And so at that time, Shiva opens his eyes and people give him a bath. That’s the morning, and then this is the time of lunch.

When Shiva is asleep, he is not aware of what is going on in the world. When he is sleeping, he doesn’t know. That’s why people have to ring a bell when something goes wrong. In the United States right now, people may be thinking that Shiva is sleeping, while here we are thinking he is eating. It’s different for different people. If there are people on the moon, they will be thinking that Shiva is sleeping for six months. Who is right? Everyone is right at their place. I am not going to call somebody on the phone in the United States and say to him, “Hey, Shiva is eating now, so you also give him food.” No, I will not do that. When he wants to give Shiva food, he can do so. When I want to give Shiva food, I can do so. If I want, I can go at 2 o’clock in the night while Shiva is sleeping, and give him food. This is our trust, our belief, that Shiva is like us, eating, drinking and sleeping. If somebody in the United States is so much of a fool, then he will be thinking that you are sleeping right now in India, but if he is an educated gentleman, then he will know that it is daytime here when it is night time there. If someone doesn’t know this system, then they will think the people in the United States are waking up now, that they are also talking just like we are. But in fact, you know that they are sleeping now maybe.

[Concerning sin and salvation.] What is a sin? Anything you do which is not from your heart. Your heart says it is wrong, but you are going to do it, maybe in greediness, or with a bad attitude or under pressure. That is a sin. Everyone can do sins every day. If you do any sin, you will feel it inside yourself. You don’t have to listen to anyone telling you that you have committed a sin. You will feel it within yourself. “I did wrong, I shouldn’t have done it.” That’s a sin. But people are doing it every day. Maybe every day you make a lot of mistakes and then you feel, “That was wrong. You didn’t have to do it.” If you read the Gita, you will see that there are a lot of sins committed by the gods. Of course gods commit sins, and they have to pay for it. They get punishment. Who punishes the gods? Their souls and their hearts punish them. Sometimes when someone has done a very bad thing and their heart tells them that they have done so, then they go to commit suicide. Every god has stories about them in which they have committed sins and were punished for that. They got a hard life, a bad time. There is no god who has not committed any sins. [Further conversation, off the record, revealed that the interviewee acknowledges Christ as the only living being, physical or spiritual, who was without sin. All other beings have been corrupted by sin — gods and non-deities alike.]

How can you be saved? It is not different. We cannot help sinning. We cannot do only good things. They go together. You have to do bad as well as good. It is like day and night. If there is no darkness, then there is no importance of light. So also, if there is no sin, then there is no importance of good deeds. If you commit some little sin and then you go out and do a good deed, then people will count that as a good deed. [“Some people seem almost completely good while others seem almost completely evil. So where is the balance for them?”] There is not any balance. Others decide whether someone seems good or someone seems bad. Others have to decide that. That’s why some people give bribes to others, saying, “Balance us in terms of good and evil.”

[The interviewers asked, “How can light and darkness dwell together when light banishes darkness?”] It goes from moment to moment. Sometimes you are light, sometimes you are dark. But if there is no dark, then there is no importance of light. If there is dark, then you will feel, “Yes, now I am feeling the light inside.” So you have to keep something dark so that it can be covered up when light comes. If you have done any sin, then you will do some good things. If the gods are not free from sins, then how can we be? There are no sinners in heaven. That’s why there are two places: heaven and hell. There is a judge who will count our works, whether they are good or bad. Who is the judge? He is Dharmraj, also called Yamraj, the god of death. He takes the soul to court and there is a man there who is also a god, but he is under Dharmraj. His name is Chitragupt. He gives the total record of the life of the man, the human, who is going to die. He sees the whole record and after that, the judge decides if the soul has to go to hell or heaven.

People are counted as sinners or non-sinners based on an average of their life. Someone has big sins and someone has little sins. If someone has big sins, he has to go to hell because he is not able to cover up his sins in the next incarnation. If someone has little sins, he is sent back to earth and then has a chance to cover up his sins in the next incarnation. If I have only a little sin, then I have a chance to come back to earth and get rid of that sin as well. It will be a life in which I will seek to do all things good, so that I will get heaven. Those who come back to get rid of their little sins will not have a chance to do anything else except worship Shiva, or whatever deity they follow. And they will spend their whole lives chanting the name of God. In this way they will not have a chance to do anything, good or bad. And if they do anything, they will do it in remembrance of the name of God.

Even if they begin to do something bad and then remember the name of God, then that thing is no longer bad. Even if you are going to kill someone, before you do it, if you remember the name of God and you say, “Oh God, I am going to kill someone. Please take care of me,” then he will excuse you. But there are many people who think that God is nothing, so when they do any work, they do it on their own and do not take the name of God. That’s why it’s right for such people to go to hell. So one can be allowed to do anything if he takes the name of God before he does it, even killing or raping a woman, and such things. But the one who has the presence of mind to remember the name of God is not going to want to do such things. I don’t think he’s going to do that kind of thing. Everything is systematic. It’s not just taking the name of God in a shallow way.

Some people will chant the name of God and then kill a Muslim, but it’s not like that. It is not something to show, but rather to feel. If you take the name of God and you feel it, then it’s okay. If you feel, then you will be sincere in thinking about the god before doing any action or taking any step. Then you will not have any chance to do any bad work. Then God will guide you, and when he does, he will not bring you to the wrong way. You will go on the right way. And it’s not the right way to kill people and rape women, as everyone knows. How will you know what is bad? You will feel it when you do something bad.

The Worship of Durga

Interview with a priest's son
Durga Temple, Varanasi

I am the son of the priest. This is one of the most popular temples in the whole world. There are eight or nine pujaris present in this temple. No one else works here. This is the first place for Durga, the oldest temple for Durga. The goddess Durga is siddh pith. This means that she is here all the time.

In a single year there are two nauratris. These are held six months apart. During this time, the goddess Durga is worshipped. The time nauratri is held depends on the moon and sun, and our Hindu calendar. Usually, it is once in September-October, and once in March-April. During this festival, by doing aradhna-puja of Durga, we do something and gain something. Each day has its own importance. So this festival also has its own importance, and during this time people don’t sleep. This is a night festival. According to our religious writings, any religious work or duty performed at night immediately becomes siddh.

This is a good rainy season. It is very auspicious. There are 12 months in the Hindu calendar. In the sixth month, the rainy season comes and we have a month-long Hindu festival. It is going on right now. Those who have been married during the year come to get darshan during savan. Tuesday is a special day of the week for worship. Saturday is not a special day, generally, but for the worship of Hanuman, it has some special significance. Tuesday is for the goddess Durga. On the other days of the week, kriya takes place. For those who especially wish to perform kriya according to niyam, all these are the same. These people come every day, regularly, and so special days don’t matter to them.

There are 33 crore devtas. Each and every one of them has given his complete power in order to create new powers. This new power, which is a composite creation of the powers of all the devtas, is called Durga. The puja system given to use in our scriptures is a nirakar system. The sakar system is an intermediary way of worshipping ultimate reality. For example, when we say, “This form is Durga,” we will worship her right here. In the nirakar system, bhagvan and bhagvati are worshipped, especially bhagvati. Bhaghvati is really yoni, which is the female generative power, her sexual organ. So, it is yoni which is worshipped. Yoni is the creative force for the whole creation. You and I, and everything originate from there. So, we worship yoni as the birthplace of everything.

In the Tantrik scriptures of Durga, sexual intercourse is looked at as a form of entertainment. And over here, it is a thing related to puja. For us, puja is of five types: wine, women, fish, meat and mantras. A naked woman comes willingly to a raji to be “consumed or drunk.” Her yoni is worshipped as the manifestation of bhagoti. It is not done here because it would become a big show in this place. All of this is done in secluded places. Or, people do it on the other side of the Ganga. It also takes place in some temples in Assam. I have performed this ritual myself. The deed is very effective, guaranteed to succeed in achieving one’s religious aspirations. If it is unsuccessful, the man is guaranteed to go insane immediately. If the woman is caused to suffer in any way, that is another indication that the ritual will be unsuccessful. My paternal uncle used to do this ritual on the other side of the Ganga. If you have time, I will show you the whole thing. This is not a day for it, but we can arrange it on the appropriate day. [Another man interjects] No, only puja takes place. [Priest’s son says] Intercourse does take place to please the woman. And the woman is pleased, the goddess. And whatever requests you have made to the goddess will be granted.

My father’s duties as a priest involve doing pujas for four hours. In relation to this place, his responsibilities are not great because so many people come that it takes a lot of time, so one man cannot carry the responsibility. So he is involved in supervising the whole thing. But others do the pujas. In the seventh month, on certain special days, he himself performs the evening worship. In my father’s absence I watch over things, and everything goes well. My work involves making sure that things go smoothly here for the devotees. Every day about 500 to 3,000 devotees come to this temple, less on normal days because the number changes depending on pilgrims. Pilgrims come in buses — five to ten busloads — who come and wash themselves, both inside and outside. They travel in groups from the same places. They come from all over India, like Madras, and places like that. During dashehra four to six thousand pilgrims a day come to the temple. This is the climax of the Durga puja. All kinds of people come to worship here. Those who are in comfort and prosperity, as well as those who are in sorrow and difficulty, come. Those who have lost something, and those who have gained something, both types can be found here. All people have equal access. It is up to our discretion as to whether we give any special concessions to a devoted person who is in need of help in performing some particular kriya.

This temple is special because it was built on 20 bisa yantras. Soon after Durga was created she came to this place. This is her main place. She came here immediately after her war with the demons. When King Sudarshan helped Durga in the war, she gave him the privilege of asking for a favor. And his request was that the goddess should come and live in his kingdom and nowhere else. So that’s why she came to this spot and made it her main abode. The devtas created Durga in svarg. Any place which is dedicated to her, via a mantra and the erection of an idol, becomes one of her dwelling places. But this place has a special guarantee of her presence. When a man begins to perform a worship kriya in this place, then he gains knowledge of what is truly the reality in front of him. In the hot season, sweat can be seen coming from the idol. The idol here is different from other idols. The splendor that emanates from it is different, makes it unique. The influence of the bhagvans is on this idol, so its arti is genuine. That influence actually shines from the face of those who worship. The mantras which are used to reside in the idol are based upon her own doctrine. The mantras have a frequency which is in harmony with Durga and in them the beat, the tone, and the rhythm are very important. Actually, science is very much behind in this whole area of frequency and sound. Mantras are very advanced in this area. Research is going on in America concerning mantras. People are trying to find out why the frequencies in them bring healing to sick people and benefit to people in general.

This temple is associated with the kund [the bathing pool next to the temple]. In early times, every public place of religious significance had a bathing tank built near it, because there were not many natural bathing places available. The goal was not to inconvenience the people when they come, because people desire to take a ritual dip as part of their religious observance. In olden times, these tanks were connected to the Ganga River. There is no special religious benefit to be gained from bathing in this kund.

On the altar in the middle of the outer court, goats are sacrificed. These things have been built for people to sit on. In olden times, this place used to be jungle. The only place people could sit was inside the temple. Here, a Shiv temple used to stand, but later it was torn down. Now, the nandi has been moved here [in a small room in the outer court]. These are the remains of the Shiva temple, and puja to Shiva is still performed here. Normally, Durga and Shiva temples are built next to each other because Durga is the wife of Shiva, but for us, that is not necessary. So we only have a Durga temple — although it is true that wherever Durga is, Shiv definitely will be attracted to that place. Inside these small temples, the three goddesses, Kali, Lakshmi, and Saraswati, are present.

The outer cover [of the inner sanctum] is made of silver. In our place, the worship of idols does not take place, only the charan is worshipped. Puja takes place with closed eyes, not open eyes. Everything that is here is charan. We concentrate on the svarup of the deity.

[Concerning the numerous monkeys running around the temple grounds] The monkeys are around here because there used to be forest here. It was only after 1960 that the forest was cleared. They are fed by people and they also find food for themselves. The monkeys are not worshipped, but when they die, they are given samadhi.

The Burning Ghats

Interview with a dhom gentleman
Harish Kund, Varanasi

[The name of the ghat where this interview took place is Harish Kund. On the way to the ghat is a road leading down to the cremation sites. There is an electric crematorium here, which the government has urged people to use. Tradition, however, is difficult to change, and burnings with wood remain the norm. As we walked this road, we saw one body being taken in for burning. It was the body of a woman covered in gold-colored, glittery garments. A group of men were carrying the wooden cot on which she was placed. A crowd followed, singing and chanting. At the time of the interview, the river was near flood stage. Normally, burnings take place closer to the river, but due to the high water, they took place in the village lanes. The residents of Harish Kund live together in a tightly-packed village by the river in Varanasi. A winding path leads up to the houses, a short distance away from the smoldering ash of burnings. Residents say that about every half hour a burning takes place, but that varies depending on the frequency of deaths.]

When we burn bodies, the first thing we do is bring the wood. After that, the funeral pyre is constructed. Then the person whose relative has died bathes in the Ganges, and takes fire from the constantly-burning flame, and lights the pyre. Then we wash the body, perform a ritual offering of flowers and other things, and then they bum it. The ashes are thrown in the Ganga. After burning, we look in the funeral pyre for anything of value, such as gold or silver articles.

Burning the body here [outside, on the ground] means that you can see it burning right in front of you. Cremating in the electric crematorium means that one forgets whose bones are whose and what’s being burned. But here, there is the immediacy of being able to see what’s happening, and what little is left is thrown into the river. There are ten types of bones and ten things that burn. In the electric crematorium, you don’t get this. Look, this is right in front of you. You can be right there with your whole party and you can be involved in making sure that your own relative is being offered to the river. Wealthy people or poor people, both can go to the crematorium. People who go to the electric crematorium don’t observe tradition and religion, but people who come here do observe those things. It used to be that the body would be burned here and Ganga pollution would bring filth to the river. That’s why both poor and rich go to the electric crematorium.

The soul of the dead person leaves the body and goes off to param athma. It goes straight up, it goes to heaven, even if it is not burned. Different people have different ideas about that. Sometimes ten, sometimes 15, or 20 bodies are burned at this ghat every day. I personally average about two or three a day.

Ashram Life

Interview with a mahant
Udasim Sthan ashram, Varanasi

This ashram is about 300 years old. It was built by Baba Pritam Das Ji. He established this religious society. Our goal is to preach religion, to give teaching, and to provide housing facilities for pilgrims. We also help the nation in times of emergency, and so on. This is a Hindu ashram, and we preach sanatan dharm. We don’t preach any one sectarian idea, but rather human-ness. Our sect is called the Udasim sect, and we are the oldest. Our name Udasim refers to the idea of becoming limitless by union with the supreme god, Brahma.

Usually, about 25 or 30 people live here. They are not all sadhus. Some are students and some are sants — saints. We do not take any payment from students. It doesn’t matter which particular god these students worship. Our goal is simply to teach Sanskrit. [So an atheist is not admitted?] How can an atheist find a place here? You yourself know the traditions of our gurus which has been with us since ancient times. We have rules in our ashram, and anybody who stays here and studies should obey the rules. The rules for our students include being present during the artis and being involved in the service of the ashram in any way, as they have time. There are several kinds of works of service and a student is free to do any of them, but they are exempt from service during examination time. We don’t teach any other subject besides Sanskrit. We have a dormitory for our students, and some of them stay here also. Other students stay at Dindayal Nagar and at Kabir Nagar.

During our artis, one leader chants the mantras and the assembled people repeat after him together. So our prayers are not individual, but corporate. This is a sanatan dharm place, so of course we have many gods. Mostly we worship the five-fold deity. So we do the mantras of all of them, but our main ones are Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh. We take all three of these as the basis of how we function. In the prayers that we perform, all the names of the gods are featured.

As far as permanent residents of the ashram are concerned, we have four managers, but they are transferable. Their authority is equal. The sadhus and sants are people who are always wandering. Several sants from Benares have come. They know that this ashram exists here, so they feel a desire to come to this place. We have ashrams all over the country, and from those places also, people come with the idea of making a pilgrimage to Benares. There are facilities for them if they stay. We don’t give facilities to any and all pilgrims, but only to those who are from other places where we have our ashrams, and if they have an introduction letter from a resident of our ashram at their home-place, we give them facilities free of cost.

Many people of all types come to our ashram. A large number come from philosophy departments. For example, Kamlakar Mishra Ji, from the philosophy department, comes here. His students also come here. One is from Germany and one from Switzerland. So, several of his students come. He is my guru ji, and he teaches me. I go to him for instruction. Some of his Ph.D. students come here too. We don’t think about whether you are a foreigner and we are Indians, or whether you are a Hindu or not. Such things have no meaning for us. Anyone can come, but they must be in submission to the rules.

We are really more of a religious society than strictly an ashram. So we do not see this as a place for living out a life-stage of spiritual search. No one can stay here for his whole life. The work of a society is only to arrange things. But there are four stages in the life of each sadhu in our place. It’s not necessary to be in your fourth stage of life. You can take sanyas even from childhood. But one is not allowed to be married.

Women are allowed in our society, but there cannot be marriage between our men and our women, nor can they live together. In actuality, there is no one who is a true brahmacharya. No one is celibate in their imagination. It’s like a chink in one’s armor, which can happen in anyone’s body. In your body, there are ten senses, and each sense has a chink in its armor. Through every sense, you can receive encouragement [to become sensual]. So really, no one is a true brahmacharya.

The reason we don’t keep women with us is because if we did, from time to time we would lose our minds. The strength to keep firm isn’t there. What we need is to become hardened because usually when a woman comes near, so does softness and tenderness. So then we are not able to perform our religious duty. Because, you see, a woman’s heart is not hardened. It is soft and tender. It’s not just that she tempts you, but her softness conditions you also to become soft if you are attached to her. Women can stay here as pilgrims for one or two days, but not on any extended basis.

There are people here who have no interest in the knowledge of books. They are tapasvis. Such a man is Bankim Baba. There are three other types here: teachers, hans, and param hans. For these three groups, learning is important, whereas for a tapasvi, the only thing that matters is to be a roaming ascetic. I cannot move from being a kutichar to being a hans or a param hans. To be one of those, one has to start on a separate track from the very beginning and follow a different kind of practice. Being a hans or a param hans is a very difficult thing to achieve. That’s why you have to start early, and you should not go into management. Changing from one stream to another is not possible because one’s mentality gets conditioned from the very beginning. We administrators are here to organize things for the roamers and those who are hans and param hans. There are many ashrams in Benares, but they may not meet the needs of the roaming sadhus, so we administrators have to take care of them.

[Do the hans and param hans teach pilgrims?] That is usually up to them. We cannot do anything to make them teach others. The progress of hans and param hans is such that through long years of effort, they reach the stage of becoming a hans or a param hans. Not everyone can achieve this. If a man does achieve it, then he is not likely to want to remain in the company of other people. Rather, he usually prefers lonely, remote places. Someone who seeks to get close to a hans or param hans can receive teaching from him, but the student has to prove himself worthy to be taught by such a great person.

You know that the smoking of hashish does go on here. It is a part of our life, but not everyone does it. I myself, for instance, do not smoke hashish. Roaming sadhus have freedom from responsibility, so they can afford to smoke hashish. Such people smoke, although there is no compulsion about it. One doesn’t have to smoke. There is no religious rule that forbids it either. Kutichars don’t have the freedom to smoke. There are those who are heavily involved in study, and others practice yoga, while still others do some other type of religious practice. And for all of these, drugs are forbidden. [Concerning the effects of smoking] Well, it’s smoking. You know what smoking does. It’s not good for the health. As far as ordinary food is concerned, those sorts of things are not dangerous. After all, they are ordinary, every day things. If you consider them as drugs, they are not the sort of drugs from which you come down. But concerning food, you have to consume those things.

We are living in the Kal Yug, and in this age the most important thing is the system of food. It is very necessary for us to eat. Even if we miss food for one day, it will create problems and make us weak. We won’t be able to get up and walk, and we will hardly feel that we have any life in us. In earlier ages, there was vital life in people’s breath or in their bones. But in this age, there is no life in our bodies, unless we eat at least some food. For this reason, that drug [referring to food] is very necessary. There is no doubt that food is a type of drug, but it is a necessary drug. If you don’t eat, the fullness of your face will begin to disappear in only one day.

In terms of my own spirituality, I took sanyas at a very young age, when I was three or four years old. I received inspiration from my parents to do this. I was offered to Guru Maharaj Ji. My guru is Shriman Purushottam Das Ji. He is from our ashram in Delhi. When I left home as a child, I stayed in his ashram in Delhi for about ten years. I still follow the instructions he gave me then, and I have to do that for always. Right now I am under the authority of our society and I cannot give diksha to anybody, nor can I make any disciples. There is no way of predicting if and when I will become a guru. There is no set pattern. If I achieve worthiness sometime by some means, then one can talk about it. But now I have no proper response to give you. I can’t really say if I have any ambition to be a guru.

As far as being inspired to be a guru, one can receive inspiration from either bhagvan or Guru Maharaj Ji. Actually, in our place, we give great importance to the guru, and not that much importance to bhagvan. Bhagvan is in his own place, and the guru is in his own place. The one who comes one time to the guru, then according to our Hindu sanatan dharm, he has to completely dedicate himself to his guru. Whatever remains for us in life, the guru is all of that to us. If he says, “Jump in a ditch,” we jump. If he says, “Burn yourself,” we burn ourselves. If he says, “Remain hungry,” we remain hungry. So there is no importance given to bhagvan here, because our guru is our bhagvan. The word guru is “gu” plus “ru.” Gu means darkness and ru means light. So, one who is able to remove darkness and bring us into the light, he is a guru. So whether I am capable or worthy of being a guru or not, I cannot say of myself that I have found the light. Even after becoming a gyani, one’s greatest human-ness is expressed through admitting only ignorance. You can only know the extent of a guru’s power if you go and experience it yourself People have only come to you as a guru when they have seen that there is something special about your spiritual leadership.

This sort of thing is not described in books. They do not give us understanding about gauging the spiritual power of somebody. That is a spiritual thing, something that comes through experience. Books are written by people and they only write what they have experienced. Someone who is truly spiritual cannot describe that in a book. One has to find out through one’s own experience. A book can give you a testimony about the writer’s feelings, but it cannot give you the feeling itself. That you have to gain experientially. Is there any shortage of gurus and spiritual leaders in Benares? Go around and see for yourself. So many gurus and saints are roaming around, and such knowledgeable people are here. But none of them give you their experience second-hand. You have to experience those things yourself. These people don’t look very great or knowledgeable, but they are. Their ordinariness and humility are the badges by which they are recognized. This is the mark of our Indian culture.

In terms of the definition of a guru, you will not find in Allahabad the type of guru that you find in Benares, because here, all are gurus. [When asked to speak words of his own experience so that the interviewer, as a new learner, could understand, he replied thus ...] Just going around and asking questions of people in every lane is not going to gain you anything. You have to go to some mahapurush, who has studied much and knows a lot. Meet with such a man, gain merit in Kashi. Gain experience.

You should read Indian philosophy, and learn what it’s all about. There are only two kinds of philosophy: Indian and Western, and there is a great difference between them. In Western philosophy, they only pay attention to sakshatkar. But our philosophy pays attention to past, present and future. Western philosophy only pays attention to “is”, but they don’t care about “was”. But the point is, if “was” did not exist, then where did “is” come from? This is how our swami ji explained it to us in a seminar at BHU (Benares Hindu University). Because “was” was, we can have “is”. If you want to know Indian culture, you read Indian philosophy. Get the latest theses written by philosophers at BHU. This will help you to understand. But better still, after reading, you should enter into experience. It is one thing to read books, and another thing to put into practice what they say. Spirituality comes from practice, not from books.

Shakti Upasana

A report provided by a guru
Aghor Ashram, Varanasi



MEANINGFULNESS OF LIFE

What is a meaningful life? How can we live a peaceful life? These are the questions that keep arising in every person. In search of peace, man has sought freedom from anger, sorrow and despair. Some have even sought it in the material realm, but peace always eludes them.

A meaningful life is one in which peace and contentment, growth and harmony are experienced. Human life has its own specialty. It’s main goal is to live an ideal life and to encourage others to live ideally as well. For this reason, there is a great need of cultivating shakti within. A person who is engaged in maintaining the self, who has compassion for the self and who seeks his own protection, is truly engaged in finding the absolute truth. This exploration, recognition, containment and proper utilization of shakti could be termed as Shakti Upasana.

In the Aghor way of life, shakti is recognized as the primal force which causes everything to happen. The word shakti literally means power, strength, energy or capability. Shakti is the life force. All the different names of the Divine Mother — Kali, Durga, Lakshmi, etc. — are just different names of the same life force, personified with different attributes.

Upasana is a very important aspect in the life of a seeker. Baba Avadhuta Sri Bhagvan Ram explained, “the meaning of upasana is to sit near your adored deity and to become permeated with their virtue, behavior and thoughts.” Being engaged in upasana is like being as an empty cup, ready to be filled with the virtues of the adored. Being born a human is most special. We are capable of achieving either divinity or beastliness, depending on our intention. Most of us are totally unaware of our shakti (strength, life force) because of the cravings of our sensory organs. Our preoccupation with satisfying these keeps us ignorant of our shakti. We roam about like lifeless creatures. Once we are aware of our shakti, we can realize our potential and enrich our lives. Therefore, shakti upasana is a must for those who want to live a meaningful life.

Shakti upasana begins with incorporating the virtue of divine beings into our daily lives. There may seem to be many gods and goddesses in different forms, but overall, they are all one. All the gods and goddesses procure their status by their virtue. In order to obtain that, one must have the right viewpoint. There are thousands of people with the name of Rama, Krishna or Jesus, but they differ from the original in that they lack their virtues. Therefore, we are searching for those qualities that enabled Rama or Jesus to be worthy of adoration. With the help of his strong character, Rama was able to embrace victory. The key elements of Rama’s character were his adherence to dharma and his dedication to his wife and his elders.



GOAL OF UPASANA

The main goal of upasana is to enrich ourselves with shakti. From insects to the Trinity, all exist because of shakti. Some have less shakti than others, as different light bulbs have different wattage. There is a great need for shakti in everything that exists. The shakti that we invoke is the same, whether it is the shakti of a human, of a divine messenger, or of a guru. Without this shakti, plants, animals, humans, gods, goddesses, and holy beings, etc., are all powerless. If they lack shakti, they are nothing but a shava.

There has been a tradition of shakti upasana in India from ancient times. Because of that, dharma and faith flourished in the past. Even today, great faith in God and in a humanitarian viewpoint is found in the people of this country. Not only Hindus, but people of other religions also engage in shakti upasana.

The shakti that awakens is not a separate entity from ourselves. People who gain intellectual and moral shakti, together with noble character, become divine beings. One can obtain these different forms of shakti only with the help of faith and devotion. These are needed to quiet the chitta. One can realize peace by quieting the chitta. Through upasana, and keeping the company of evolved beings, a person is able to recognize, contain and utilize his shakti.



HOUSEHOLDER SEEKERS

It is not true that a householder cannot be a true seeker. Householders have often obtained knowledge that is not attained by even the great renunciates. Nanaka, the founding father of Sikh dharma, had two sons, and Mohammad, the founder of Islam, was a family man as well. If one is engaged in the search with dedication, worldly things are never an obstacle.

We engage in upasana for the sake of elevating our being. If we are progressing in our practice, we should also take along our next of kin. While doing this we must be watchful of not getting attached, because attachment causes anxiety, fear and sorrow. Once we become attached, instead of being a comfort to our next of kin, we become weak and unfocused.



NECESSITY OF FOLLOWING ONE SPECIFIC PATH

Everyone does not walk on the same path. There are different paths for different people, yet the goal is often the same. Some people may even have a different goal. It is a matter of great happiness if all arrive at the same place with a disciplined, healthy, and happy heart-mind. With dedication, a disciplined heart-mind flourishes.

According to one’s understanding and condition in any place or circumstance, whatever one knows is right. There are various ways of worshipping, but the end is the same. Although there are various forms of the goddess with different virtues, they are manifestations of the One Goddess with one all-encompassing virtue. There are many people who have experienced many things, yet are at the same place they started. Who are these people who never arrived anywhere? It seems as if the road itself kept moving and they remained standing still. It is the same in upasana. If you then become involved in different practices, it becomes like climbing a sand dune. Everyone learns according to his own samskaras. Whether it is made of clay or gold, a pot’s size determines how much it can hold. If you stay with your one devotional practice, your samskara will also evolve as your shakti increases.



NECESSITY OF STABILITY

A person can attain great heights momentarily, but may be unable to remain there. One may be near God or the guru, which takes very little time, but to remain there takes great stability. This stability can be achieved only by love and affection. Just by seeing something lofty does not elevate the consciousness. Seeing alone is not meaningful, whether it is sadhana (practice), upasana (practice with devotion), dhyana (meditation), or asana (postures). If stability is not there, all these practices are useless.



NECESSITY OF LOVE AND AFFECTION

One needs to cultivate love and affection toward one’s deity. The expression of our love to the Divine should be practical. It can be expressed simply by manasic puja (mental worship). There should be a longing to be near our deity similar to the longing of a drowning person to reach the water’s surface. There should be a constant call for the deity. At such moments, the body is thrilled, hair stands on end, and each pore starts vibrating. The whole body experiences gentle, pleasant pulsation. These occurrences are the indication of the emergence of the goddess shakti within.

The main goal of worship and outer rituals in upasana is to develop love for our deity. This love is the only path to the proximity of our deity. It is the only asset that can be exchanged for the closeness of our beloved. Without the sentiment of master and servant, this kind of love does not arise. At the time of carrying out an action, there are two. Otherwise, both are one. Divine love is a practical aspect of human life that can be practiced by the visualization method of ritual worship.



NECESSITY OF SURRENDER WITH MIND, VOICE AND ACTION

We say Sarveshwari tvam pahimam sharnegatam. Once we have surrendered, and yet still commit evil acts, they are related to an insincere surrender, performed only by our voice and not by our heart-mind and actions. Once we perform our worship, and still harbor expectations, we should know that we have not surrendered totally.



NECESSITY OF DILIGENCE IN UPASANA

In upasana, it is our diligent practice that bears fruit. The element of fire is present in the wood, but it can be produced only by some effort (friction). In the same way, the element of the divine is present in the nature of cosmos, which can be obtained by diligent practice, provided we possess the method of invoking it. We must work hard. One who shuns hard work, being helpless and afraid, is forced to beg. Once we work hard, the same hand that is stretched out for begging, turns into a giving hand. Our hard work is never wasted.



NECESSITY OF FAITH

Faith is one of the greatest virtues. Our austerity, upasana and worship bear fruit only after being nourished by faith. We should inspire faith in others and strive for their trust. In faith, a farmer throws seeds in the ground and later harvests a bumper crop. We perform most of our actions based on faith. Without faith, our mantra, practice and medicine do not work. After receiving our mantra from our guru, we should practice it with utmost faith. It is only then that we are able to understand its power and our life becomes meaningful. Faith is our greatest wealth. Faith is like a new inspiration and a new life.



NECESSITY OF SHEEL (MODESTY)

Together with affection, modesty is a must. We must be modest before our beloved. The restlessness of our sensory organs, mind and limbs must come to rest. Only then will our upasana become fruitful. Engaging in sadhana is like sitting next to our deity. Therefore, we must remain aware of our body posture, behavior and appearance. No matter how much you love a person, if you do not behave properly, you will get deprived of their company.



NECESSITY OF CESSATION OF DOUBT

There is no emergence of shakti within a person who harbors doubt. As long as we are laden with doubt, we keep inviting confusion and trouble in our lives. Even a momentary doubt destroys our life-long earnings, and blunts our vitality. Therefore, we must remain steadfast in our conviction.



NECESSITY OF OUTER AND INNER CLEANLINESS

In our upasana, we must pay attention to our outer and inner cleanliness. Without outer cleanliness we become dull and sluggish, and without inner cleansing, trash accumulates in our conscience.



NECESSITY OF DIRECT GUIDANCE

In our upasana, various things become favorable to us, and others remain unfavorable. There is a reason for this adversity. All the theoretical teachings of religious texts are not worth following. Dharma and behavior should relate to the appropriate time and place in history, abandoning the old conventional ideologies that are no longer practical. If we embrace the practical ideas for our time, we invite peace in our lives. All the Vedas, Puranas, Gita, Quran and Bible are composed by men. These are entitled to be called experiences, or recollections of great beings. These books could give us direction, but cannot make us walk on the path. We need the shakti that enables us to walk on the path.

It is the guru, the administrator or doctor, of our time who can come to our aid. If we sit and wait for the healers mentioned in our history books to come and relieve us of our ailments, we will never get rid of our sickness. It is the guru or guide, who is available to us in our time, who can give us real guidance. By embracing the teachings of the gurus or saints we come in contact with, we can walk on the path of today.



CONCLUSION

By our upasana, instead of obtaining the grace of Maha maya, the Divine Mother, we have to seek our own grace. The favor and obligation of Maha Maya is already with us. The Divine Mother has already given us not only this human body and the company of holy beings, but most of all, has given birth to us on this holy earth. We should be grateful for this understanding, the goal of our lives. Let us practice the righteous way of living.

The Story of Kina Ram

Translation of text from panels
Aghor Ashram, Varanasi

Lord Shiva appeared to Kina Ram’s mother in a dream and said he will be born. When Kina Ram was young, many gurus would come to visit him. Three sadhus came, who were really Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu. Then a ceremony was performed where the name Kina Ram, which means “one who has been bought” was given to him. He was very fond of gods. He liked to worship. Instead of playing with his friends, he would sing bhajans. When he was going to get his wife for his wedding, he insisted that he should be fed with milk and cooked rice, which has some kind of Tantrik connotation, because when someone dies, they are given milk and rice. So he knew that something was going to happen. When he ate this food, he received news that his wife had died. After his wife’s death he left his village and went to Khajapur, near Benares. Then he lived with a guru who tested him. He was told to fetch water from the Ganga. The guru was convinced that Kina Ram was special.

Once he was visiting a jail and there saw weak people who had to grind flour. So he touched all the grinding stones with a stick and they moved on their own, so the inmates didn’t have to work any longer. When a Muslim King heard about this deed, he came and said, “Forgive me and give me your blessing.” Then Kina Ram went to Karachi and there went to a Devi temple and got blessings from the goddess. Then he went into Afghanistan. The Muslim King of that area, Sha Jah, begged Kina Ram’s forgiveness and blessing. Then he went to the mountains and met the first-ever guru there, who was a form of Brahma, and he gave Kina Ram human flesh to eat so that he could see the world through divine eyes. He got all supernatural and divine powers from this guru. He came to Benares to one of the burning ghats here and met another guru, and the goddess Ganga offered him a gift of fish. One man had died and Baba brought him back to life.

A landlord who lived in this area offered Baba the land on which this ashram is built. Once Kina Ram went to the Ganga in Bihar and taught the people there that they should eat everything and practice Hinduism, that they shouldn’t consider anything bad to eat. He brought back to life a dead elephant. He fought against the Muslim and other people who were trying to convert Hindus away from Hinduism. He then went to Gujarat and met people who came to drown themselves in the sea. He rescued one woman who was there. A Brahmin came to him who was childless. Baba had a stick in his hand and hit the stick on the ground four times, producing four children. Another woman in Benares, whose son had almost died, asked him to heal her son. He healed him and brought him back to good health. Then he went to Madhya Pradesh, and on the bank of a river, a Muslim King who destroyed many temples in India came to beg forgiveness of Kina Ram. Kina Ram scolded him. As he was about die, he gave his final teachings to the saints and then left his body.

The Aghor Tradition

Interview with a guru
Aghor ashram, Varanasi

The aghor devotees are followers of a 15th century guru who held to the belief that all things are good to eat. Part of aghor ritual includes those who eat the flesh of human beings. In this particular ashram, we met a large guru clad in a loin cloth who was gracious to grant us an interview. He sat in a large, open-air room with the story of the founding guru painted on the wall encircling the room. The guru had a bowl full of cow dung ash near him. He gave some to us to mark our foreheads. Women and men brought small children before the guru. They all received some of the ash. Women rubbed their children’s faces and stomachs with the ash. Some would even place ashes in their children’s mouths. In the ashram are burial sites for deceased saints. It is believed that where a saint is buried, there is a spirit that dwells there, making it a sacred site. There is also a pool on the property that is full of algae-green water. In the pool is a statue of the founding guru. It is believed that those who bathe in the pool on Sundays or Tuesdays, auspicious days for bathing, will be healed of all diseases. A number of people were bathing at the time of the interview.

We have over 105 ashrams in India. There are also some in America, Italy and Nepal. There is no particular dwelling place for the inmates of this ashram. They can sleep and stay anywhere they want. There are all kinds of places here. So they sleep where they want, and that’s where they get a feeling of joy. If you come here and sleep here, then you will get your joy right here itself. You don’t need to go anywhere else. At this site in the morning, we have arti after which we bathe. People who live here spend the day laboring in the fields, doing agricultural work to meet expenses. In the evening we have arti, and then a message from the Baba, which is read [from the writings of Baba Kina Ram].

The point of having the tombs of the mahants and sadhus here, is that they are a kind of symbol or sign for the people, and by means of them, people’s shraddha will be increased. This is a very ancient place. All the mahants and mudiya sadhus are buried here. The last entombment that occurred here was the twelfth one. These mudiya sadhus were the disciples of the mahants. Baba Kina Ram Ji is buried here, as well as Baba Kalu Ram Ji, and Baba Biya Ram Ji. They are all buried here.

In this tradition, on Sundays and Tuesdays, in accordance with their own wishes, people come and bathe here. They bring a little bit of rice and dal as an offering. Then they apply vivhut. By this, they achieve their own good fortune. From all places, those who have gone through great difficulties and are in deep discouragement, come to this place and have their fortunes reversed by the merciful favor of the malik. These people have shraddha in them.

The point about vivhut is that this material is aishvarya, and by applying it, a person is assured good fortune. So people come here, bathe first, then apply the vivhut. After that, they have a darshan of the deity, and perform three parikramas. Then they leave. The dust of holy spirits is in this place. Therefore, when people come here, if a particle of this dust falls on them, then their bodies of flesh and blood, damaged by alcohol and broken down by abuse, can experience healing and salvation.

Concerning the ashes which are worn here on the forehead, even by children, the story behind this is as follows: during the Baba’s time, a mother took her only son and came here with him to this spot. She had only the one child and she was in great difficulty, because he was dying. When she brought him to this kund and bathed him here, he was cured. It was during that time that she received a blessing. So at this spot, this kund — a pool for ritual bathing — was established by Baba Kina Ram Ji. He consecrated it by the recitation of a mantra. He spoke a blessing over this spot which was that as long as the Ganges flows through here, people will continue to bathe at this spot, and thus their good fortune will be assured.

When people come in to give honor and respect to the guru — in this case, myself — they themselves will end up receiving the same respect and honor. He blesses them and says, “Be happy.” When they do this kind of honor and respect, from the body of the guru good things will emanate, and for sure, the devotee’s life will be blessed with good fortune. If the devotee remembers his guru and avoids bad attitudes, then there will be great joy and blessing.

We worship Devi or Shakti. We worship Durga. We meditate on and care for, and worship them in order to gain four things: wisdom, religion, sensual pleasures, and moksha. By worshipping Vishnu, Shiv, and other deities, we only gain one step of progress upwards. You may get sensual pleasure or moksha, or any one of these things. They can give you only one step forward. The worship of Devi is the only way in which you can achieve a close and timely position. The other gods are there, in all of it. The worshipper of Devi becomes one who finds all four of the things that we desire. From the time of the creation of the human race, human kind has faced adversity and sufferings. Human beings fell from a position of comfort. Without the support of Shakti, no person’s salvation can be achieved. When one goes to Shakti, he develops a sort of mind which enables him to understand subtle and serious things. Bhagauti, or Bhagvati Bhovani Shri Shakti — other names for Durga — we need her spirit in our conduct, our thinking and in our rituals. She dwells in that body and in the heart of that man who calls on her with a pure and undefiled soul. If he calls to her even just once, she will come to him a hundred times. If he takes one step, the goddess helps him take more, and she takes care of him. Anyone who doesn’t want to do anything at all, and he only simply has wishful thinking, hoping that these benefits will be granted to him, that man’s thinking is wrong.

The trident is an object before which puja is definitely performed. The trident belongs to Shiva and by doing puja to it, people receive good fortune. This is a very old symbol which the saints and mahatmas of old had with them. They didn’t have much else. It is an object of shraddha and people do the manauti of it. It helps fulfill human aspirations. I’m not saying everybody does this with the trident. It is only those who have gone to some particular mahatma or guru, and have received specific instructions, that do the manauti of the trident.

[The Guru quotes from a journal entry. The words are those of the disembodied sadhus.] “I am present in hope and in hopelessness, in darkness and in light. I am formless and also manifested in form. I am the one who walks both in the past and in the future. I am known and unknown. And no matter which friend you take with you and roam, I am that friend. I will come to you in that form. No matter which form or attribute you will assume, I will come to you in that very form or attribute. Truth, truth, truth. I am present in the rays of the sun, in the beams of the moon, and in every drop of water. I am existent in the living beings of the earth — in animals, in plants and in vines. I am in the earth and in the sky.”

A disciple went to his guru who was lying dead on his bed. The disciple was trembling and distraught, because his guru was not going to be around any longer. Someone asked this disciple, “Has your love been directed toward your guru in his physical presence or has it been directed toward his spiritual self?” The disciple replied, “I have loved him in his bodily existence.” The man said, “That is wrong. If you had loved him apart from his physical presence, then whether he would be with you physically or not, his presence would be there in all that you do.” Even if one is a guru, if he assumes bodily existence, such an existence will not permit him to cross to ultimate release.

When we put ourselves under the protection of the superhuman powers which exist, and they look at our worthiness, then they take note of us. By making contact with them or receiving a command concerning them, then those who are open to being tested by them and want to be sheltered by them, will receive diksha. And they begin to do their sadhna in alignment with those powers. Gurus are the only ones who can give initiations. This depends on the guru’s personal inclination. Only those who have been given the right to give dikshas to others can do so. This is the guru’s prerogative. I have never given diksha to anybody. Our Sambhav Ram Ji and a couple of others, are authorized to give diksha, but they haven’t started yet at this time. Sambhav Ram Ji has given diksha to hundreds of people.

Worthiness for initiation is gauged by whether you have within you the desire and inquisitiveness to learn. In this way, when you begin to make contact with the guru who has the authority to give diksha, then the mahapurush is able to discern that worthiness is there. He then takes the worthy person into a close relationship with himself, and it is through the guru and the instructions that he gives, that the seeker is cultivated in his spiritual life. The seeker grows in understanding and his guru is able to feel more confident of his worthiness. It is not that gurus don’t give respect to many people — they do. But still, it is only a few that are chosen and initiated. And these initiates do sadhana in line with the instructions of the guru. Going into the wise knowledge of such a great man, where darkness is removed far away and light is received — only by coming under the protection of such a great man are all these things to be achieved. The initiate is able to move forward in this way. Concerning gurus, it has been said that the body is full of poison and the guru is the source of the nectar of life. So even if you lose this body, get a guru.

In terms of a goal, the main thing is this. If your guru gives you any instruction or guidance, then you should pay attention, listen to what he is saying, and meditate upon it. Then you put forth effort to apply those instructions and that guidance to your life. Then you will be able to receive all kinds of delight. And you will owe it all to the guru’s guidance. After all, it is because of the guru that you get to be where you are. And without the guru’s gracious favor, no man is able to reach a high state, even for a moment. One must not go according to one’s own desires if one cares about one’s own welfare and good fortune. It is much, much better to follow what the guru says.

My guru is Baba Bhagvan Ram, who is not physically alive anymore. Even though my guru is not physically here, his spirit is present in every place at every time. If I have any doubts or questions, then he is able to give me a message by dreams or through circumstances and events, saying that this is the correct way to go, or this is the wrong way to go, or this ought not to be.

To go from being a disciple to being a guru is a matter for which the initiative is with the guru, not the disciple. The process continues forward once one has become a disciple, and eventually a time is reached when the disciple becomes a guru. The work of a guru is not to make somebody a disciple, but rather to make him into a guru. The right to be the sort of guru who has his own disciples and is able to initiate others is something that is controlled by the organization or by the path which the guru has chosen as his own. It’s a matter of time. The time comes when the guru is ready to disciple others, it is not a matter of somebody telling him. His worthiness is completed at a certain point in time, but this is not something that he needs to hear from others. There is no such thing as some kind of age limit.

There are some who have no need of doing sadhana. From the point of rebirth itself, such people are qualified. They have an inborn power, and the necessary power has been deposited within them. This is the world, and because of the mind, there is lust, covetousness, anger, geed, and arrogance. These things are not weak powers. In one way or another, they are able to cause us to fall. So, to save one’s self from these things, until we receive the loving favor of God, it is extremely difficult to overcome these things. But on the other hand, when one does overcome these things, then one is a guru or a mahatma, or whatever you want to call him — he is all of those things. These evil desires — it is very difficult to eliminate them completely. The ideal is that we should eliminate them. Such a state would be a great thing for a guru, but it is very difficult. I have not personally received freedom from all these desires. It cannot be. I am a person, am I not? I am a human being — so it is not possible.

[The Guru quotes from Baba Bhagvan Ram.] “Whatever you may think about God, he is whatever you think he is not. A man who wants to attain ultimate bliss, peace and tranquility of mind, he should keep away from anger, desires and other things, and don’t talk ill about others. He must get rid of those things and he will have peace of mind. In him there are no desires. In us there are desires which accumulate night and day. No man’s desires are ever fully satisfied. We end up roaming night and day trying to fulfill those desires. In order to gain peace we have to get rid of these things. If we exercise our wishes by following these desires, then we will see what this life really is and we will achieve the capacity for real knowledge and understanding. If such realization is not happening, then we are, in our ignorance, giving birth to evil thoughts within us, allowing them to linger within us. Then we become slaves of those thoughts. Those thoughts take us wherever they want to. They turn us in whatever direction they want and give birth within us to many, many kinds of evil.

“It is through these ashrams that we are able to obtain knowledge and receive understanding of these dangerous things. If we have even a little strength to understand and to learn, even that is enough. Then we will be able to understand all these matters. Otherwise, these matters will not be understood. Who would not like peace? One who practices silence in a desolate place, he is able to have a long life. That man becomes free of lust, anger and hatred. That individual becomes comparable to a god. Devtas also honor him.” These words are from Baba Bhagvan Ram, the 11th guru of this ashram.

Do something. Sit down. Steady yourself. Only then will you be able to understand anything. If you want to ask questions, even as you are walking along the path, then things will be very difficult. You have to commit yourself to the way if you want to have any understanding. So that vision for which we pray and think and meditate, that is not only for speaking, but also for doing. Only after you do something will you be able to understand what this is all about. If you only simply listen, and you’re hoping that you will receive these things, then it will be very difficult for you. It is difficult to explain simply by talking. One has to experience it to really understand how Shakti comes to dwell in a devotee.